We're joined by two of our Advisory Board members: Gene Valentin and Jason Gray, who share their lived experiences and insights regarding Pride: what it means to them, where Pride has lost its shine, and how individuals and companies can be more effective allies. This is a fairly unusual episode for us. It's more of a panel discussion than an interview, and it's pretty raw and unfiltered.
This is a two-part episode as part of our Pride Series this month, so stay tuned for part-two next week!
Transcript below:
Erica D'Eramo 0:10
Hello, welcome to the Two Piers podcast. I'm your host, Erica D'Eramo. And today we have a different episode. So we actually have two guests joining us today and we'll sort of have like a panel discussion about Pride. So the month of June is Pride Month. And today we have Gene Valentin joining us and Jason Gray, who is a repeat guest for us. Also joining to discuss the topic of Pride and also different for us, this will be a two part episode. So stay tuned for the next edition.
Okay, Jason, Gene, thank you so much for joining today.
Jason Gray 1:04
Thanks for having me back.
Gene Valentin 1:05
I am so excited to be here.
Erica D'Eramo 1:08
I know this is your first episode with us. Yeah, cool. Well, welcome back, Jason, and welcome to the podcast gene. So Pride, this is a big topic. And I I think most people know that Two Piers is actually a queer-owned business, a queer-owned and led business. But if not, you know, this, this topic is really close to our hearts. And both Gene and Jason happen to be on our advisory board. So. So yeah, this is kind of a big team effort for us to look internally and kind of share some of our own identity and experiences. And then next episode, we'll look a bit more externally and kind of look at the macro, the macro view of things. So first off, let's start with some introductions. Yeah, Gene, welcome welcme to the podcast.
Gene Valentin 1:58
Thank you. Thank you. I'm really excited to be here. My name is Gene. I use he him pronouns. And currently I am living in Maine. I've been here for about five years. And right now I'm managing Portland's like first Puerto Rican owned restaurant. And it's been, honestly such a great time. I met Erica a couple of years ago, and it's just been so great knowing you.
Erica D'Eramo 2:29
Thank you. Yeah, I ditto. Otherwise, I wouldn't have you on the board of advisors.
Gene Valentin 2:33
That'd be awkward.
Erica D'Eramo 2:37
Jason Jason, welcome back.
Jason Gray 2:39
Hey, thank you. Thanks, again, for having me back. As as I had shared on the last, the last podcast I was on, Erica and I have known each other for for a number of years. Or decades, yes, also true. But for me, you know, I'm an HR professional. And you've been have been working through an educational journey. I actually, just today finished my MBA. So I got my last, my last paper submitted for my capstone. So super excited. Thank you. Thank you. So definitely, you know, lifelong learning has been a passion. I am hopeful to be finished with my educational, well my formal educational journey as of today. But I'm excited to be here and excited to share some of my perspectives.
Erica D'Eramo 3:26
Yeah, cool. So the topic of Pride huh? We kind of, we've all discussed this, I mean, at length for what it means to us individually, but Gene, do you want to share a little bit from your personal perspective, when you hear the word pride and the month of June, what comes to mind?
Gene Valentin 3:45
Oh, yeah. First thing is the TD Bank float. Honestly, that's the first image that really comes into my brain. But obviously, I think it just goes straight into Target's Pride section and all of the all of the Pride sections and all of the major chain stores and it's that's that's, doesn't really sit right all of the time.
Erica D'Eramo 4:10
Yeah. The capitalist element.
Gene Valentin 4:13
Yes.
Erica D'Eramo 4:13
Consumorist element of it. Yeah, I think I sent Jason a photo the other day of like, some large format, like no-name wine with just like rainbow all over it. Like it's everywhere, right? Rainbow washing is everywhere. Yeah. Jason, when, I mean, when you hear Pride, what are your...
Jason Gray 4:38
Yeah, I think well, you know, as I had shared with you, I mean, you know, I'm 41 years old. I've never been to a Pride event. And, you know, it's, it's not it's not because I'm not proud. I mean, I'm certainly proud of who I am. And I, you know, I've, I feel like I've helped, you know, a number of people across the years to, you know, to be one with their identity and to expand their horizons. and to, you know, deepen their understanding of themselves. And so it's not that I am not excited about, you know, who I am and what I bring to the community. But sometimes for me, it's, it's, it's more off-putting than it is inclusivity-based. And so for me, you know, I again, I've never really, you know, gravitated towards that like, "Oh, hey, let's go to, you know, to a private event, or let's go to this, this event or that event." But for me, it's always just kind of been like, hey, you know what, I'm going to do my own thing, and I'm going to be in my own little pocket of the community, which I know doesn't also really lean into driving that greater sense of community and bringing people in and also broadening my own perspectives. But I think sometimes it's also, you know, part of me protecting my own wellbeing and not throwing myself into that, because if you're not, you know, super fit. And if you're not, you know, a 10 on, you know, a 10 on the, 10 out of 10 on somebody's scale, and you don't have the whitest teeth and you don't have the best hair and the best Botox and et cetera, like, are you accepted into it? And so for me, sometimes it's been like, you know, I'm gonna hang out with my chickens, or I'm gonna go to the beach, or, you know, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go watch some TV. So it's kind of a, it's an interesting journey, I guess, that I've been on for myself.
Erica D'Eramo 6:25
Yeah, I mean, that's interesting to me, because the, the image part of it, I think, kind of differs as well across gender and, you know, historical identity and stuff. So, for me, like, I think I've first went to the, like, I think it was called the Dyke Parade in New York City, like 20 years ago, or maybe even 21 or 22 years ago, long, long time ago. And I feel like I almost felt the opposite. Because in a way, I didn't have to conform to all of these like stereotypical feminine physical ideals, not that people didn't like some of my friends that went and got all dolled up. They went as like mermaids or you know, wore like, very, like flashy costumes and stuff. But for me, there, there, it was almost like the opposite. I didn't have to, I could just dress however I wanted, right, I could wear like baseball cap, I could do whatever. But I think like my identity to pride has changed a lot over the years. And so back 20 something years ago, it was really an opportunity for me to, like, find community at a time where I couldn't, you know, there weren't a lot of spaces for community, to find other people that like, looked like me, I guess that's the definition of community, right? Or, like, not look like me, but you know, have the same thing in common that I, for a long time, and it kept us like my dirty secret. So you just felt like super validating and liberating. And like this rebelliousness around it, like there was really this kind of like, I don't know, we're gonna, like, get out there and go like counterculture, and just be who we are, despite all the messaging, despite all the pressure not to be, and it felt really empowered. And, you know, as all good things, I think people saw the value in kind of coopting it, investing in it, I guess, I think like, some of the alcohol brands, were the first ones that you really saw investing big time in a community, which was problematic at the time, right? Because like, there was a massive issue with alcoholism in the gay community and the queer community. And so, you know, there was that tension of like, it's great to be acknowledged and invested and see these like rainbow colors on you know, in ads and in magazines and stuff, but I don't know, like, kind of leaning into some existing issues.
Gene Valentin 9:06
I feel like what this is, kind of bringing up I think, for me, at least is like, there... like, to be queer is to be revolutionary. And like, vice versa, like that is the whole like, I feel like there's so much dialogue now around the fact that like, even just the word queer is so significant because of like, one its historical context, but now how much community has tried to reclaim that word, but also now how that word is like, shaping into an entire lifestyle of of living against that, like, very cis-het norm grain like,
Erica D'Eramo 9:45
Like living on your own terms?
Gene Valentin 9:47
Exactly. Exactly. And that goes to relationship styles, to identity to how you feel politically. It expands so much more now. So
Jason Gray 9:59
I think that's a good point. And I think that were, you know, when I read articles about, you know, Gen Z specifically and their, you know, their approach to, you know, sexuality and their approach to their identities is so different than, you know me as, you know, border millennial, you know. And so it is interesting, because I think that there's a, there's a massive shift that's happening at a scale that we haven't really seen thus far, where so many folks are saying, like, "Hey, I don't want a label, I don't want this label, I don't want that label, I don't want any label, I am just me, I am a human being. And I, I just this, I'm just me." And so I think it's interesting, because, you know, we were all, you know, in, I guess, assuming, but you know, I would assume that each of us were raised in a fashion that was like: You are this, these are the boxes that you check off. And now as we've gotten older, we're like, "Wait, none of those make any sense." And even if they may have kind of made sense at the time, they don't really make any sense anymore. And so there's no purpose necessarily, in checking all those boxes, or trying to check the boxes, because the boxes just don't even matter anymore. You know, there's, there's so much shift to, hey, you know, what, I'm just gonna do my own thing. And this is me, and you can love me, you can not love me, but I'm still here and you... we need to work together, we need to tolerate each other, we need to learn how to interface and interact and respect each other. And I think that, you know, again, kind of going back to the root of the question for me, pride has a lot of like, respect, and you know, treating people with dignity, and how do you empower people to be their best version of themselves. And it doesn't necessarily mean that that version is what I think is great. You got to bring your best version of you. And you have to create that, you know, and so, I think that for me, you know, again, kind of going back to the pride piece, and I guess that's part of where, you know, maybe I've always gravitated towards, like, I'm just going to, you know, march to the beat of my own drummer, is because I've never really fit into that mold. I mean, you know, like, I'm a, I'm a 41 year old, gay man living in central Pennsylvania, with like, 150 birds, four alpacas, two dogs, a fiance in the Dominican Republic. I mean, I'm just like, I mean, I'm like, all over the place. And I'm like, not in this, like, tight little group of, you know, circuit queens or anything like that, you know, so it's just, it's just, I, I'm just existing in a different space, I guess. And I think that that's cool. And I think that it's cool for everybody to exist in their own space. But I think the respecting is what's you know, just so paramount for me.
Erica D'Eramo 12:43
So the, the piece around like labels and how we fit into that is interesting, because like if those labels go away, and I think this is what a lot of people fear, and where you get some of this, like weird backlash turfy stuff is like, "Oh, well, if we can't all come together in our rebellion, identifying with this label, and like seeing community with this label, like, you know, in this club..."
Jason Gray 13:11
Yeah.
Erica D'Eramo 13:11
We're not going to, like, set ourselves apart in this club any more then what's the, you know, what's the point? Or there's something just like, as we're evolving, and those labels are washing away? I think some people are feeling that, like their, I don't know, their, like ties to the community are threatened or something.
Jason Gray 13:29
Yeah. Well, and I can get that, I guess, for me, and again, this is just my perspective on it, perhaps and perhaps it's skewed given my own, you know, experiences. But, you know, I mean, for me, like, you know, a big part of, of my LGBTQIA+ is, you know, is the A piece, which is that, you know, the Allies and like the, you know, the plus
Erica D'Eramo 13:53
Or Ace.
Jason Gray 13:53
...being the, you know, the the other people in so like for me, you know, I know that my circle is like, you know, I keep people close to me who are like in that whether or not they realize it or not. And so I think that there's a you know, there's certainly some confusion, I guess you could say or, or, or lack of understanding that, you know, it's like, even if you're not, you know, queer, or however you identify, if you're an ally, you're still part of it, you know, you're still you're still with us, you know, you're just not at the same perhaps level that, you know, obviously, somebody in a same sex partnership is, you know, et cetera. So it's just, you know, I think it's just a very broader community than some people might. I don't know, maybe that's my, again, that might just be a skewed perspective of it, but that's kind of where I go with it.
Erica D'Eramo 14:47
So okay, the topic of allies because I know that there's been a lot of talk lately about, you know, like coopting gay spaces and queer spaces and so you know, at what point does that ally ship become More like CO opting versus supportive, like how, what makes a good ally? I don't know, Gene, what are your thoughts?
Gene Valentin 15:09
I actually just had this conversation today, which is so
Erica D'Eramo 15:11
Oh weird.
Gene Valentin 15:13
But I, I had this conversation with a group of other Black and brown queer people who were just sharing their experiences of like living in New England. And like, we asked ourselves that question of like, what, what does an ally look like to us, like specifically, and a lot of it came down to the fact that like allyship, in our experience, has been very performative. And a lot of it happens too, ironically enough, in these very, like white queer spaces, that is when those you know, quote, allies who say that they're here for us are not actually here for us. It becomes a very like, air of like, gatekeeping. And like, it's, it makes it that much harder for I think, specifically nonwhite queer people to feel that allyship.
Jason Gray 16:09
Sure, sure.
Gene Valentin 16:10
So I think that's kind of like where I stand on I think, really, for me, you are an ally, if you are using your own privilege to allow me to speak up louder, not for you to speak. You use those powers to make sure I get to speak. That is what that means to me.
Erica D'Eramo 16:25
Yeah. Yeah. I think that's I mean, that's a good, that's a good point. And like, what's what is the purpose in it too? Is it like to win brownie points in some sort of corporate BRG competition? Or is it actually to like, like you said, leverage your privilege, because you feel fundamentally that people deserve the opportunity, deserve the same rights, and you're gonna fight and put put skin on the line?
Jason Gray 16:54
Yep.
Erica D'Eramo 16:55
Jason, what are your thoughts on this?
Jason Gray 16:57
Yeah, no, I can certainly see that. And I think that, you know, I know, Erica, I know that you, you know, you and I have talked before about, you know, obviously, like, you know, recognizing that, you know, that we are coming from a place, oftentimes of privilege where, you know, even though, you know, like, I obviously, I might, you know, not walking around with, you know, like any, you know, Confederate flags or anything on me, but I mean, I also, you know, realize that I'm like, from an area of the country where like, it wouldn't be that out of the ordinary for that to happen. I obviously don't identify nor align with that, you know, that that mentality. However, I also know that there are a number of people who, at one point, I would have considered to be an ally, who now I'm like, wait, "What, what? you're supporting who? You're you're okay with what? You feel like this about human rights?" So I think that, you know, you know, Gene is right, in the sense where I think that there are, you know, certainly, you know, people who are coming at it from, you know, it's a certain performance, or it's a certain expectation where they feel like, hey, I want to be part of this group. And in order to be part of this group, I'm going to do this, but then when really push comes to shove, I'm still not aligning with them. And so I think that that's where, you know, having that alignment, it has to be like a full alignment versus like, hey, you know, what, we're gonna do this when the cameras are on. But once the cameras stop rolling, I'm going back to my ways. And so I think that that's where, you know, it is probably tough, because, again, somebody like me, you know, who obviously has different lived experiences, my circle obviously looks very different than, you know, what I'm sure you know, Gene, your circle probably looks like and Erica, what I'm sure your circle probably looks like. And so I think that, you know, you know, fortunately for me, you know, I've been, you know, fortunate enough to, to really have people in my circle, who I know, you know, are truly there and truly have me, but I also have had those same experiences, you know, the Gene's referencing where sometimes, you know, again, I look at people and I'm like, wait a thought you I thought you got it, you don't get it like you're not, you're not you don't get it you like are literally, you're here for the party, and you're here for the bars, and you're here for you're here for the events, but you're not here for the entire being of, you know, in the space, in the community.
Erica D'Eramo 19:18
It's like you're willing to have your bachelorette party at a gay club, but then you would be upset if your son came out to you as gay. I think, you know, I mean, I'm kind of simplifying it. I think the interesting thing is when we asked that like "why?" like go a little deeper about what is it that you're, like where does your allyship stem from? And a lot of times I think people identify with the queer community and want to be a part of that like vibrancy because it's liberating. The queer community says you can come as you are like, you can. I know there's exceptions, right? Especially when it comes to like, yeah, body image and they're still stuff to work through, still a lot of gatekeeping. But I think that there's just such a liberating message. And yeah, people are drawn to that, because they feel oppressed in their bodies and their selves in their presentation.
Gene Valentin 20:12
Oh my gosh, the way that I just feel felt this in my soul, like, I, I just feel like, too like, cis-het people are so drawn, they're so drawn to queer spaces, so drawn to queerness in general, queer people, because of what you're saying, exactly. It's like, they look at us, and they're like, "Oh, I could have picked different. I didn't have to like like, there..."
Erica D'Eramo 20:36
"I didn't have to conform."
Gene Valentin 20:37
"...are there are so many things about me and myself that I never thought to question. And like, never thought to see if those actually served me." And it's like, so that is terrifying to see. Yeah, that that is something that could have worked.
Erica D'Eramo 20:53
I mean, I think that's part of why drag shows have been popular for like, decades and decades, right? Because it's people just just really going all out to be themselves in like eschewing any kind of societal, I don't know, boundaries, that how they, how they present themselves.
Jason Gray 21:14
Yeah. Well, and I think too, along the lines of, you know, drag shows, I mean, I think that that is something that allows people who are not necessarily in alignment with the community, to like, exist in this like, fringe space, between their heteronormativity and their, and their hetero lifestyle, and this fun, wild, interesting, you know, just really... You know, when I think of a drag show, like, I mean, I can just like, think of like, the fun. I mean, it's just like, the energy and the excitement in the, you know, in the outfits and the songs.
Erica D'Eramo 21:55
Amazing and the artistry.
Jason Gray 21:57
Absolutely. And so I think it allows them, sometimes, again, my perspective, to kind of exist in this fringe space between, like, their reality and our reality. And it's fun, and it feels good. And it's like, oh, yeah, but then like, at the end of the day, they're like, they go home, and it's like, man, that you know that that performer, oh, gosh, you know, and they start like, analyzing and they're like, wait, what, man? And it's like, why do you need to, like, sit there and rip it all apart? Like you had fun, right? Like, who doesn't have been at a drag show? Come on, like, if you don't have fun at a drag show, you know, but I think that sometimes, then, on the flip side of that, you also have, you know, so many folks, and I don't know, you know, what the statistics or anything look like. But I know just from my own circles, there are so many people now later in life who are coming out and realizing like, "Hey, I'm not who I thought I was. This is my updated, if you will, identity, and this is where I'm going now." And it's really happening at a level that I've never experienced. Maybe I just haven't paid attention to it. But it seems like it is definitely much, much more common now than it was 5, 10, 15, 20 years ago. And again, I may be off base on that. But my thought is I think people are starting to realize, like, "Hey, you know what, I don't have to pretend anymore. Like I can literally be my best version of myself. And if that is being, whatever it is, I'm going to do it because I'm not going through the rest of my life not being authentic to myself." And so, you know, I think that there's that aspect of it as well.
Erica D'Eramo 23:38
Don't you think that's where some of those backlash comes from, though, is that...
Jason Gray 23:43
1,000%!
Erica D'Eramo 23:43
Yeah, like the wheels are falling off the patriarchal designation of how we will do gender. And
Jason Gray 23:51
Well, you know, some of the folks who are who are, you know, not to go on a complete tangent or anything, but, I mean, even look at some of the folks who are making the most noise about these bills, and about, you know, the, the need for you know, protecting these kids and for, you know, stripping away, you know, LGBTQIA plus rights and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And then the next thing, you know, one of them is like, found on Grindr, or one of them is like, you know, trying to hook up with guys in the restroom, or like, it's like, you got to look inside. I mean, you know,
Erica D'Eramo 24:21
That whole integration thing.
Jason Gray 24:23
It's just such a very, it's just such a very bizarre process where it's like, you know, there's so much finger pointing and there's so much negativity, but so many times I feel anyhow, where it's like, if we could just all look inside ourselves and if we could all just accept people for who they are like, I don't care like I don't you be what you want to be. Just don't be a nasty person and don't try to rip somebody else's rights away. But then at the same time, you can't you can't hate one person or one group for everything that they are. And then in private you are that how do you want
Erica D'Eramo 24:59
Internalized homophobia is nothing new, right? I mean,
Jason Gray 25:04
It's just it's just all on tick tock now. So it's just faster to you know, it's just faster to get to our hands and to our eyes like, oh my gosh, it's crazy, though. I, you know, I think about it all the time. I'm like, how are the people who are screaming the loudest about why we need to, like, stop this and change this and end this? Why are they literally the ones who are like, in the middle of it. And really, again, my perspective on it, I think a lot of times, they're the ones who are the most problematic in it, because they're trying to do all of these, you know, pieces and trying to have all of these negative, you know, negative repercussions and swing the conversation into such negative light. When the negative piece isn't all of us, the negative piece is what they're doing and how they're being perceived after the fact. So it's just, it's very, it is it's very troubling, I think, you know, to watch some of the pieces as they unravel.
Erica D'Eramo 26:02
I mean, I think that that... I still remember in high school when I was like, deeply in the closet. And it was the girls on the field hockey team who would throw around like the homophobia the most who then came out later.
Gene Valentin 26:16
Yeah. I like see half of these articles with like, you know, these politicians were making these anti trans spills and like, you know, just like, what he had said is like, you know, you're on, you're on Grindr, and it's like, I don't know, I've seen those headlines, and I'm like, Yeah, everyone knew that.
Jason Gray 26:33
Yeah.
Gene Valentin 26:37
Like, it's like, because why? Why would you be so obsessive? Why else would you be so?
Erica D'Eramo 26:42
Right, right, if it takes up that much space? Yeah.
Gene Valentin 26:44
Like, it's, it's really it comes down to that to what we had spoke to before of like, you know, they see, they see that it did, it could have been different, like,
Erica D'Eramo 26:55
Well, I mean, The Scartlet Letter, right. When was that written? You know, like, hundreds of years ago? I hope my English teachers aren't listening. And, you know, it's the same thing, right? Like the people who point and scream the loudest. Yeah, but, okay, so to go back, though, to the, like, I want to bring it full circle, the comments that we were discussing about pride, and how it's kind of been corporatized, it's been leveraged, very commercialized these days. What do you guys think the... I can actually, like, freely use the term, "what do you guys think right now, because I have two guys on the podcast." I was trying, to like, undo that Northeastern thing? What do all y'all think? Okay, so
Jason Gray 27:45
It is very tough to break. It is a very tough phrase to break
Erica D'Eramo 27:53
"Youse guys." So what do you think the answer is to that? Like, what's the right way to do pride support, in your opinion? Gene, what do you, what do you think?
Gene Valentin 28:04
Honestly, I think people who have access to a lot of privileges, that being very nice financial privileges, I think they should all open up their wallets and directly give money to Black and brown queer people. That is exactly what I think Pride should be.
Erica D'Eramo 28:20
Yeah.
Gene Valentin 28:21
But that and also just, I want it to be this, and I feel like maybe, you know, I would hope that I do get to experience a pride that does really feel like a pride and not like a monetized event that really only caters to like a certain, like group of, like, cis queer people and also queer people. I want Pride to look like.
Erica D'Eramo 28:49
An actual rainbow.
Gene Valentin 28:50
Yeah, like, I will try to look like community spaces and like community care. Like, that's what I want it to look like I think.
Erica D'Eramo 28:56
Yeah.
Gene Valentin 28:57
Don't get me wrong, you could throw a party and I'm not gonna say no, but that's another added piece.
Erica D'Eramo 29:04
Jason for like, from a corporate perspective, you know, like, how do you think that businesses can be good corporate allies or, like, do Pride in a way that's actually like, genuine or authentic?
Jason Gray 29:18
Yeah. Well, you know, I think, you know, again, kind of going back to a Gene mentioned earlier, you know, with, you know, like, with Target, for example, you know, I worked at Target, you know, I mean, I spent, you know, I spent some time at Target. I had an awesome experience working there. But the Pride collection was like, not a bright spot, you know, I mean, and even now, like I saw, you know, I saw like, one of their shirts this year is like, "live laugh lesbian." And like, sure, like, it's a cool play on words. I know, right? Like, no joke. I'm not making this up. You know, I mean, like, sure, like it's, you know, like, it's like, okay, like, it's a great play off of like the whole "live laugh love" thing. But like, are we furthering a cause from that or like, are we giving like, you know, are we giving joker frat guys a fun shirt to wear for Halloween this year like, and so
Erica D'Eramo 30:10
Maybe we've really reached equality if if your T-shirts are bad jokes, I don't know.
Jason Gray 30:19
You know, for me, there's also an educational piece that a lot of these companies need to, you know, reinvest in and I think that sometimes it's within their own their own operating models too where it's I, you know, if you're, if you're operating, you know, an organization and you don't have a focus on, you know, DE&I, why not? And how do you and how do you make it a focus where it's an actual focus, and not just, you know, again, I go back to my checkbox, you know, like, don't make it something you can just pencil whip, like, it needs to be like an actual, like part of your fabric to really move forward and make it something that's meaningful.
Erica D'Eramo 31:02
So I have... I have, I have some thoughts. Um, I do think that there is a place for companies to celebrate Pride, like truly celebrate. And my anecdotal piece there is that, you know, when I interned for the company that I then spent two decades working for, I really didn't think I was gonna get to go into energy until I showed up that summer. And the like, Pride group was super active, they had tables in the lobby, and they invited me to like, participate on the Pride parade. And like, it was an awesome experience, I felt really tied in. And I felt like there was community there. And like, that was the deciding factor for why I ended up working for that company for as long as I did, like, that's what got me in the door, and got me to stay. So I think that there is, it is wise of companies like create those spaces for people and to show their values through that. Now. That being said, I think that you know, the DEI piece and the BRGs. If you have a BRG, what are you doing with that BRG? what are you doing that Pride group? Are you elevating their voices? Are you having them inform like what your policy is? In this company, it was a big deal that they provided domestic partner benefits way before it was required, way before gay marriage, like in a, in Texas, right? Like, that was a big deal. They were way ahead of the curve on that. And it was smart of them because they got top talent because of it. So, but like, what are you doing with the BRG? Are you just making them do unpaid labor that could be you know, like paid consultants and they got they have like, a side job that they're doing on top of their full time job. What are you doing to do like mentorship, and pull through and all of that stuff to make sure that you don't have gaps in your talent pipeline, and that you don't have blind spots. So if you're not doing all that the other 11 months of the year, I don't know that you really earned a big rainbow, you know, float in the Pride Parade, if you, if you're at the same time funding politicians who are actively trying to reverse gay marriage and gay rights, you know?
Jason Gray 33:32
And I think that's kind of like, where my schpeel was leading also, is this like, you know, it can't just be something that, you know, even like I was mentioning, you know, referencing like, you know, other other months, and, you know, like, for example, like Black History Month, like, you can't, you can't negatively, you know, you can't work to negatively impact and to disenfranchise Black people for 11 months out of the year, and celebrate them for one month, and think you're doing a good thing. Like, that's not how it works. Like, you're either in it, or you're not. And sure, you know, I agree, I think that it's great to say like, Hey, you know, what, this month we're going to focus on, and maybe we're going to share, you know, for this month, we're going to share all of the impact that we've been able to, you know, to to inspire or we're going to impact, or share all of the, you know, all of the folks who we've lifted up and and celebrate their achievements over the past, you know, year, but if you're just you know, if you're if you're spending, you know, $10 million, donating to various campaigns across the nation, to further disenfranchise the community. That's really not how it works and organizations out there, you know, that are doing that. And it's just, you know, it doesn't mean oh, a lot. Oh, yeah. I think more than most people would be really comfortable knowing.
Erica D'Eramo 34:54
Yeah, I think a lot of that information is public too. So
Jason Gray 34:56
Oh, yeah. Oh, absolutely.
Erica D'Eramo 34:58
And companies will often get it round that by saying, "Well, we have like a political action committee, and then the employees decide where the money goes." But like, fundamentally, if you are creating a space for that Employee Action Group, and you see that the funds are consistently going to undermine the very marginalized groups that you are claiming to support, then I don't know if there's some questions to be asked or
Jason Gray 35:24
Certainly, yup.
Erica D'Eramo 35:26
So, um, so this was just like part one, you know, kind of about Pride in general, and some of our mixed feelings about it, and the complexity about it, and then next episode, we're gonna get, we're gonna like dig a little deeper.
Gene Valentin 35:39
I'm excited.
Erica D'Eramo 35:40
Might talk about some intersectionality.
Gene Valentin 35:45
Ooooff.
Erica D'Eramo 35:45
Cancel culture maybe? Well, thank you so much for joining, gentlemen. I appreciate it. Any closing thoughts?
Gene Valentin 35:59
I'm excited for epsiode two. Very excited for the next part.
Jason Gray 36:06
Likewise, I'm excited to keeep going. And I think that, you know, something that I think is cool for me, as you know, it's always neat to hear different perspectives, and all three of us obviously, coming from very different places. You know, so I think that, you know, it's cool to hear, you know, different different opinions. And I am excited because I think that the next time that we meet, you know, we may be able to share some more ways that we've each been impacted. And so, so yeah, excited. Thank you for having me back.
Erica D'Eramo 36:37
Yeah, cool. Well, for anyone listening, you can always find our materials and our resources on our website twopiersconsulting.com or on pretty much any of the social media platforms @twopiersconsult So we look forward to seeing you next episode!